And with a swimsuit runway show that revealed way too much, a few boutique shows that lacked luster and furniture that glided down runways, it was the worst of times.

Scottsdale Fashion Week and Phoenix Fashion Week, back-to-back events that ended Thursday, might have been inevitable mixed bags, but both fledgling events succeeded in highlighting the raging retail scene and nearly absent fashion industry in the Valley.

Scottsdale Fashion Week, which ran Nov. 1-4, featured 23 runway shows with in-season clothes from boutiques and national department store chains, as well as a few designers from the Phoenix area and elsewhere. The idea was that onlookers could buy the clothes they had just seen.

Last Saturday's Neiman Marcus fashion show and gala, whose VIP tickets went for more than $500, was the main event. Other fashion shows came from local boutique Electric Ladyland, edgy Native American-inspired designer Virgil Ortiz from New Mexico and tattoo-inspired label Ed Hardy for Dillard's.

Organizers estimated that 13,000 people showed over the four days of events, but thousands in that count were likely repeat visitors. Scottsdale art gallery owners counted an additional 7,000 attendees at the Wearable ArtWalk, according to fashion-week organizers.

Meanwhile, Phoenix Fashion Week organizers said 2,000 people turned out for 28 runway shows and other events on Monday through Thursday.

A charity fashion show and boutique runway show featured in-season clothes, while 15 designers from Phoenix and elsewhere showed their spring 2008 lines.

A market for retail buyers and educational fashion seminars also were available to the public each day.

Both of the Valley's fashion weeks differed from New York Fashion Week, one of the most important and exclusive industry events where world-famous designers showcase their collections for the upcoming season and set the tone and trends for the future.

Kerry Dunne, a Scottsdale Fashion Week organizer, said he imagines his event becoming one of the Valley's signature tourism events that puts money in the pockets of restaurants, shops, hotels and golf courses, and not necessarily a key fashion industry event.

"You can't outdo New York (Fashion Week). Maybe someday we'll be heady enough to break fashion," Dunne said, "but the opportunity to see it on the runway and buy it (immediately) is something cool. The difference of our show is that we'll always be open to the public."

The see-it/buy-it theory was lost on Cindy Weber, 51, of Scottsdale, who caught a runway show put on by Mahsa, Twist Boutique and Estilo Boutique, three boutiques at Scottsdale Waterfront.

"There wasn't a lot of commentary. It was hard for me to tell which items of clothing were coming from which store," said Weber, who enjoyed the show overall. "If you saw something you really, really loved, it would have been hard to go and find it."

Organizers of both fashion weeks say that a few weeks ago they were considering combining into one event for next year. But it's unclear how serious those discussions are now.

The reason: The events succeeded at targeting two different crowds, with the Scottsdale group going after shoppers, and the Phoenix camp appealing to buyers, designers, boutique owners and others in the industry.

Phoenix Fashion Week organizer Brian Hill said he hopes to intensify the industry crowd for next year's event.

"We're going to shoot for even better designers, more name brands," Hill said. "We always want to have emerging designers, because that's what we're built on. . . . But we want to get Marc Jacobs in here. We want Kate Spade."

Scottsdale hairstylist Deanna Foerstner said her expectations for Phoenix Fashion Week weren't high, but after she saw Wednesday night's runway shows, she felt the Valley's young fashion industry was strengthening.

"Every fashion show I've been to in Arizona has been very fashion-behind, not fashion-forward," said Foerstner, 29. "I was so excited to see up-and-coming fashion. I love that they're doing that."